Hel: the last saga giveaway - so many minis

Hey all,

Just thought some of you might appreciate the chance to win this game, it has so many gosh darn miniatures! Too rich for me to back but wouldn't say no to a free copy 😅

Here is the link:

https://wn.nr/TX8V2h

Edit: Came across another giveaway for the same game, double the chances:

https://wn.nr/rMZcYt

Good luck everyone!

Also, how do you guys feel about the mini heavy direction that a lot of games are going? What are games where you feel are enhanced by exquisite minis? What games would you rather have tokens or meeples in instead and pay $30 less for? (I use dollars as I am assuming most of you are American?)

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Supporter6 months ago

I love mini's except for when I hate them.

I guess you could say my feelings are a little complicated. Game design is a art, as is painting, writing, or pottery, or sculpture, or..... When an artist is choosing how to express what he wishes to express he can and will vary medium's, even within his/her discipline. A sculptor may choose one type of stone over another, a writer may vary the style of their writing, all to increase the transmision of their vision.

So, I really think that some games are designed with a vision that is best communicated with mini's. Unfortunately, it also feels like sometimes the only vision has to do with dollar signs. And, that can cut both ways. Some games feel like they only use plain wooden meeples because that is the cheapest option.

I personally tend to prefer wood, or a mix. I really like how #Scythe has both custom wooden meeples, and big plastic mini's. I love how #Spirit Island has wooden, AND plastic components.

So, in the end I really can love minis, or meeples, or standees. My biggest concern is that the components help the funcionality and enhance the vision of the designer.

6 months ago

That is a very well thought out response :) are there any games you've bought that the addition or removal of mini's would improve it?

Supporter6 months ago

Thanks. 

This is maybe a vanilla reply, but I think that #risk could be improved by minis. I tend to steer away from buying games that I suspect of being dramatically overproduced. So, I'm having a hard time thinking what to take minis away from. 

6 months ago

As in going from the tiny minis that are normally there to full size detailed minis? (And presumably a bigger map to accommodate)

Supporter6 months ago

Probably bigger map, but mostly I'm thinking fairly small minis like they used in #War of the Ring (Second Edition) or #Risk: The Lord of The Rings The Middle Earth Conquest Game

6 months ago

Ah, all the versions of risk I have played have small minis already. The tiny little soldiers and horse and cannons (or stormtroopers and AT-ST's in the case of star wars risk)

Supporter6 months ago

I guess all the copies of Risk I have owned/played over the years have been to old, they didn't have minis.

6 months ago

I guess so, but it also means the people who make risk agree with you as they added minis :D

Supporter6 months ago

👍

Supporter6 months ago

I feel there's a bunch of Kickstarter games that don't need minis, and are way too expensive for it. 

That being said, I confess part of the appeal of buying blood rage a couple of years back, were the minis. 

Supporter6 months ago

Painting miniatures is one of my hobbies so I get double use out of miniatures in games. 

That said I don't think they should go in every game.  They work great in strongly thematic games, when the characters being represented by the miniatures have some personality to them, and also when there are spatial elements to games.

I recently picked up #Zona: The Secret of Chernobyl which has 10 miniatures, one for each character.  The characters are strongly themed and the miniatures really help bring out what they are about.  (And will do so even more once I'm done with them!)  Those 10 miniatures bring something extra to the game.  The mutants and anomalies are all cardboard which is fine because they are generic.  

A game like #Mechs vs. Minions has a ton of miniatures for the generic minions.  You'd expect it to be too much but when it all sits on the table it a) looks amazing and b) makes it a lot easier to move the minions around.  If they were all cardboard it would get pretty finicky and would be harder to conceptualize what you are up against.   So it really helps the spatial element.

However, I don't think miniatures would add enough to your typical worker placement euro to justify the cost.  There is no spatial element to consider between workers.  Usually it's just a question of what space are they on rather than how close are they to my other worker or something similar.  Each worker is generic.  You don't need to tell the difference between individual workers most of the time.  

Of course I am sure there are exceptions and edge cases but that's how I think about it in general.

6 months ago

Edit: Came across another giveaway for the same game, double the chances:

https://wn.nr/rMZcYt

Supporter6 months ago

I like both. Meeples can be cute (see Root) or thematic (Everdell) and I appreciate the feel and tactility of the.  On the other hand, miniatures can really add to the table presence of a game too. Star Wars: Imperial Assault and Star Wars: Rebellion games have some amazing minis that really make the experience so fun. The minis in Scythe are really cool too. 

I’m in favor of both! However- I definitely wouldn’t pay for a gigantic box full of extraneous miniatures like you see on Kickstarter more and more. This just becomes too much. 

6 months ago

I do think minis can add something to a game, I often think about #War of the Ring (Second Edition) and get to move these huge armies into areas is just so satisfying (if you are the Sauron player, terrifying if you are the free people's player)

Although wooden bits are always so fun to hold, games where you get to have meeples in reserve really benefit from that.

On the flip side, I really enjoyed so many aspects of #Rising Sun but the minis felt unnecessary in many cases, and often far too big for their actual impact on the game (the massive lion one that is just an extra person you can put up the top of the board being a prime example). I would happily of had tokens, meeples and/or cubes to replace most of the minis and possibly had the resources instead put into a more detailed map (that you would now be able to see due to no minis). I think I would probably buy it if that was the case as I really loved it mechanically.

Supporter6 months ago

I almost always prefer meeples, and even better when they're screen printed ones like in Root. Big part of it is the cost and the tactile fun of wooden components, but I also have a bias against mini games that makes me feel like they require more setup/teardown time and higher play counts to be fully enjoyable (I play almost exclusively 2p with my wife).

Edit: Oh and thanks for sharing the giveaway!

6 months ago

What is your guys go to 2p game? I have recently started playing more games with my partner and it has opened up a whole new section of games ((I always tended to play 3/4 player games before as played with groups).

Supporter6 months ago

The ones that usually go well for us have these elements:

  • Midweight euros (weight rating somewhere around 2.8-3.8 ish)
  • Under 2 hours
  • Multiplayer games that scale well for 2p
  • Decent amount of interaction
  • Rewards feeling of progression and has pieces you place on a board
  • Some form of engine building

With that said, the two games for us have been #Viticulture: Essential Edition (with #Tuscany: Essential Edition), #Clans of Caledonia, and #Root. I recently got #Agricola (Revised Edition), #Concordia, and #Clank! Legacy: Acquisitions Incorporated, and I'm pretty confident that at least one of them will break into our top 3 to play at 2p.

6 months ago

I am surprised #Root works so well with 2, I would have thought that you'd need the interplay of factions to make it pop? But then again, I have never played it (not for lack of wanting) so what do I know :D

Thank for the suggestions!

Supporter6 months ago

Ah, I should have explained myself actually. You're right about your impressions on Root and it's not one that I'd recommend easily for 2p only. It blooms at 3p or more and big part of the fun is that tension at the table. It's my favorite game though, so I was pleasantly surprised to see my wife enjoying it, especially since I wasn't sure how she'd feel about the player conflict that happens in the game. It made sense to me why she liked it though because like I mentioned before, we like under 2 hour gameplay, good amount of interaction, we like the build up that happens on the board, and many of the factions have unique euro-like mechanics that are fun to try out and the game has just the right amount of luck involved for dice combat.

Even though I say this, 2p (1v1) gameplay is still very limited in faction selections/matchups, so I've been enjoying trying out the Better Bot PnP's for solo plays as well as trying out a 2p co-op game against bots at some point.

Supporter6 months ago

Part of the reason why I'm on the fence on root. I primarily play at 2 and fear root wouldn't makes sense at that player count. Would love to try the asymmetrical play though. 

Supporter6 months ago

Will that other player be your spouse?

If you like solo gaming, then I'd recommend getting Root. If not, then it really depends on your spouse's preferences.

Supporter6 months ago

Yes, my partner. I would give the solo play a try but ideally I'd like to play with her more. 

6 months ago

Gotcha, that makes a lot of sense. I'd interested to hear how Agricola works with two, as I have only played it with 4 before.

6 months ago

It plays SUPER fast. I have played a 2 player Agricola in under an Hour and a half and that is including the initial evaluation of all of the minor improvements and occupations you are given. 

6 months ago

Have you ever played the dedicated 2p version of Agricola #Agricola: All Creatures Big and Small? If so how does it compare to playing the original with 2 players?

6 months ago

I have not! I like the original enough to not pursue the 2p edition but I’ve heard good things. 

Supporter6 months ago


6 months ago

Ha! Brilliant

Supporter6 months ago

Stick around and you'll see I'm a big Meeple advocate.

Meeples > Minis (most of the time)

6 months ago

Miniatures will not sell me on a game, it will not detract me, but it will not push me over the edge. I do like some quality production to a game but a game like #Root has an excellent vibe to it without minis! I would play that over Blood Rage or Mansions of Madness any day!